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Rick Burnett:  Let's continue with our discussion about Making Right Choices.  In your book on page 47 you say, "choose to create a healthy environment."  What do you mean by that?

Dr. Robert A. Schuller:      First, you have to define environment.  Many people think when we talk about environment we talking about caring for trees and rivers.  What we are talking about isn't the environment people don't live in - we're talking about the environment that you personally live in.   I'm all in favor of caring for our trees and rivers; however, that's not the environment you live in every day.  We are talking about the environment where you live day in and day out.  You have a dramatic impact upon the environment in which you live - emotionally, spiritually, and physically. 

Dr. Douglas DiSiena:      I totally agree, in fact one of the things we didn't put in the book, which has since come to light, is the cell phone irritants.  I know that both Robert and I now use earplugs, so that we don't get direct cellular radiation.  That's a simple thing.  If we're talking about simple external issues, that would include something as simple as making sure you get some sunlight.  That is something that is very important.

Rick Burnett:  I was thinking of the home environment - I would think we have some choices as to what sort of a home environment we have.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: What we're talking about in the book is the way you live every single minute of every single day.  So part of your environment is created with your diet, part of your environment is created with the thoughts you think, part of your environment is created through where you live, work and drive your car.  If you're driving in your car with your windows closed and there is someone with you who lights up a cigarette - that person has just contaminated your environment.  You could roll your window down, you could ask them not to smoke - you can clean up that environment.  For example, if you're in a car pool driving to work every day and someone in that carpool is smoking and contaminating that area, I think there are things you can do to stop that from happening.  You need to do that.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: Also, part of our environment is the people you constantly surround yourself with.  We need to be very clear and make good choices in terms of the people we are around because we can be around toxic people that will affect our environment - which would definitely make you toxic.

Rick Burnett:  On page 48 you say:  "choose Christ who transforms the negative into a positive."  Let's hear what you both have to say about this.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: The first thing we have to do is to continue to have proper communication with Christ.  If you're going to develop a relationship with someone, one of the fundamental, key ingredients to creating a relationship is communication - talking to that individual - being with that person.  Developing a relationship with God or Jesus Christ is no different.  If you never spend any time with Christ in prayer - that's what we're really talking about here - if you don't spend any time in thinking about Him, His actions, how He would make decisions, then you can't expect Him to have much of an impact on your life.  No more than you would anyone else, if you don't spend any time with them.  Time is a critical ingredient for developing relationships.  That's why as a father, I find it very important to spend time with my children.  It is the same way with us as children of God.  We need to spend time with Him.  His time is there for us - He's not the one who is unavailable.  It's us who choose to "go outside and play" instead of spending some time with "Dad." 

Rick Burnett:  What are some of the consistent things we can do to bolster our relationship with Christ?

Dr. Robert A. Schuller:  We have opportunities to turn lemons into lemonade in effect.  The illustration I use is the understanding that Christ turns the negative sign into positive sign through the cross of Jesus Christ.  I recognize the cross as a positive sign.  We realize that when Christ died what He did for us was probably one of the greatest events that ever took place in History - by creating the greatest negative of all and turning it into a plus.  As a result of that we have eternal life!

Dr. Douglas DiSiena: Sometimes issues can break us and make us bitter; however, sometimes they can make us better.  I know personally, I could have recoiled from my illness, or you can use an illness to teach you a life lesson - a lesson that only that illness can teach.  Sometimes turning that negative into a positive depends upon the choices we make.  I know that one of Robert's favorite scripture verses is:  "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to His purposes."  So, I think the most important part of that verse is that we are called according to His purpose.  God gives each one of us a purpose and gives us gifts to allow that purpose to work in our life. 

Dr. Robert A. Schuller:  Also, another way to develop a solid relationship with God is to allow the Scriptures that He has given us in the Bible to work in our lives to nourish us, to strengthen our souls and to give us the guidance and uplifting that comes from discovering and realizing that from the very beginning of time to the very end of time God has a plan and we have a part in that plan.  I like to use the illustration of a thread in a tapestry.  From our vantagepoint we look at the world and we see this huge mess and what we are looking at is the back of the tapestry.  God sees the other side, where you see the fabulous beautiful pattern of the tapestry and it all fits together very well.  We can't see that - we don't have that viewpoint.  The day will come when we will, and all things will fit together.  Another thing about the illustration of the tapestry, let's say there's one thread that we see from the backside that looks out of place, so we just pull it out - thinking it doesn't fit.  Suddenly, if you look at the other side, you'll see this great big missing piece where that thread was and the tapestry has been destroyed.  God knows exactly what He's doing - we have to realize that.

Rick Burnett: On page 50 you say choose positive thoughts and positive people.  What do you do when you have people in your life that are negative - do you say, "hit the road Jack?"

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: Sometimes that is the only option.  In fact, I use an illustration in the book of a person who was in a negative family situation where they just had to cut off that relationship.  The good news is since I wrote about that situation, the relationships have been reunited and the relationships are extremely healthy and positive today.  However, that separation had to occur, where they could heal from all the negativity and family dynamics, which created incredible pain.  The only thing that did work in that case was basically "hit the road Jack - and don't come back until you're better."  Once that family was willing to work on their issues and build a relationship on a different foundation, it became healthy and well.

Dr. Douglas DiSiena: There are a lot of people I encounter who are negative all the time.  Many times it is just because of fear.  Once I work with them and get to know their fears, we can help turn around that negativity.  Of course, I'm talking about on a patient/doctor level.  Sometimes, on a social level, we don't have time or it might not be appropriate - so then, it's time to choose other people.  That's why I'm proud to have Robert as a friend.  We can choose to have friends who are  "in the process" of developmental wellness.  There are also people who are just kind of stuck where they're at - we're not all there yet - some of us are still just working it out with the Lord's help.  Those are the kinds of people I like to have in my life - they have a positive impact on my life and encourage me to grow, just like I encourage others to grow.

Rick Burnett:  Can either of you suggest some steps we can take for this self-discovery process.  On the spiritual side you say to know yourself, you have to know God.  The way to know God is through a relationship with Christ and studying His word.  What about on the emotional side - what steps can we take on this journey to self-discovery.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller:  If you can relate with these people (negative people) and they don't pull you down - it is possible, although it is highly unlikely.   Usually it is like being in a basket of crabs.  You don't need to put a lid on a basket of crabs.  As soon as one starts to crawl out, another crab will pull it down - none of the crabs will get away.  They will just keep pulling each other down.  So, we have to ask ourselves if our relationships with people are pulling us down.  If they are - then you have to break away from those relationships.  Once you are on the outside, you can throw them a lifeline.  One of the key ingredients to discovering wellness is personal discovery.  I think I've mentioned this before.  I believe it was John Calvin who said that in order to know God you have to come to know yourself and in order to come to know yourself you have to come to know God.  So, spiritually, our relationship with God depends upon self-discovery.  Physically, it requires us to understand self-discovery - to be aware of our bodies and how they function.  If you have certain situations going on in your physical being, you know there is a problem and you can do something about it to create health.  This is true spiritually, physically and emotionally.  What is it that causes people to be "down" or to act in certain ways?  There are usually reasons why people act certain ways.  It's the self-discovery that creates the opportunity to make improvements.  Until you know there is something wrong you're not going to change it. 

Dr. Douglas DiSiena: Basically, what Robert is referring to here is The Twelve Steps. 

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: Yes - I wrote a book on the twelve steps, which includes a lot of what I just said.  The book on the twelve steps I wrote is entitled: Dump Your Hangups Without Dumping Them On Others.  That's what happens - when we have hangups and problems, we just dump them on others.  In AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) - a person has to say: "Hi, I'm Joe, and I'm and alcoholic."  That's a big step - by saying that they are declaring where they need improvement, where they are weak and their hangup.  That's a difficult thing - a lot of people won't say that, or won't admit to it.  That's why it's called denial.  Sometimes I think it should be called lack of knowledge.  They have to open their eyes and see - that's self awareness.

Dr. Douglas DiSiena:  The first step is to admit there is a dysfunction.  That's a pretty big step.  Sometimes we need to encourage people where their dysfunction is less noticeable.  To put it into simple terms, we have mind, body, and spiritual issues.  When you go through the 12 steps you quickly learn where your issue is - Sometimes if we can just encourage people where they are comfortable - let's say if its with spiritual issues and physical issues, as they grow in those ways there becomes this widening gap where their obvious dysfunction is and that allows people to become more aware of the areas where they need work. 

Rick Burnett:  You talk in the book about the importance of reading Scripture.  Do you have a specific method for reading the Scriptures?

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: The best way is to just do it!  Most people don't even attempt it, or if they do they become frustrated.  If you start reading Leviticus in the King James translation, it's going to be a tough read!  If you're going to read the bible, get a bible that you can understand.  Get one that communicates to you.  The purpose of a translation is to put it into your language.  If you want to find a good translation and don't know where to look, go to a Christian bookstore and they'll recommend one.  Go to the Gospel of Mark to start - which is easy to read.  Secondly, you can get a Bible commentary, which will explain what the various passages mean.  However, remember a commentary is one person's interpretation.  There can be several interpretations to one particular passage of scripture.  For instance, I have probably twenty different commentaries on every passage in the Scripture.  So, I have twenty different options I can read. 

Dr. Douglas DiSiena: I like to use a variety of different Bibles.  Sometimes I just want to read through the scripture and I'll use a paraphrase bible - it speaks in the language we use today.  It's not a literal translation that's why it's called a paraphrase.  I also have a software program in my computer that has many different commentaries for the Scriptures.  I also recommend the Life Application Bible, because you can look up a particular issue going on in your life and find what the Scripture says.