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Rick Burnett: Continuing our discussion about toxic religion, you also say that toxic religion judges others.  What does that mean?

Dr. Douglas DiSiena:  What we are trying to say is that instead of understanding where a person's character is from the inside, we judge what they do on the outside.  In fact, Robert uses a quote in the book, "if he's going to Church, he must be a Christian."  So, we are judging people by the outward acts and appearances, not by what is in their heart.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: What happens is that people make assumptions.  People may look at someone and call them a Christian just because they do "nice things" that society expects; however that person may have no relationship with Jesus Christ.   Just because someone follows all the rules, it doesn't make him or her a Christian.  A Christian is someone who has a personal relationship with Jesus Christ by saying the prayers of grace and declaring Jesus Christ as Lord.  That is what makes a person a Christian.  Some people will look at someone who does not have these outward signs, meaning they don't appear as a good person and they don't do nice things.  So people will say "he's a bad person, yet he claims to be a Christian."  They condemn that person.  When I hear people use those words and have that mindset, I just say "be glad they're a Christian - image how much worse they'd be if they weren't a Christian!"  So, we have to realize that being a Christian doesn't make you better than everybody else, it just makes you a better person than you'd be if you were not a Christian.  So, we have to quit judging people and simple do what Jesus told us to do; that is, to love one another.  Just love people and accept them.  You can give them instruction, guidance, show them some leadership.  If you love someone it doesn't mean you don't give them instruction or guidance; actually it should be quite the contrary - you should guide them all the more.

Dr. Douglas DiSiena: One of the peoples that Jesus was most critical of was the Pharisees who tried to make themselves religiously superior, when in fact they were not. 

Rick Burnett:  In the book you write that toxic religion focuses salvation on people, not Jesus.  Do you want to elaborate on that?

Dr. Robert A. Schuller:  I'll go back to the whole understanding of humility and being the person that God wants us to be, to live a healthy Christian life is to be able to say "teach me, Lord."  That is making Jesus the Lord of your life.  Being a servant of Jesus Christ and to be able to say "teach me."  I read the story of Sherry Larson; she is the head of Paramount Pictures.  Her mother was a holocaust survivor and came to the United States, was married and living a comfortable life when her husband died suddenly.  He had developed a successful real estate company and she had no alternative but to try and run the real estate company.  The only problem was the chairman and the manager of the office came to her and said, "you don't know anything about real estate, how do you expect to do this job?"  As a young girl, Sherry heard her mother say the words, "teach me and I will learn."  Sherry says that those words have directed her life ever since.  As a Christian, growing spiritually in order to come to a greater understanding of who we are as individuals and our personal relationship with Jesus Christ; and, if we are going to be servants of Jesus Christ, we need to realize and understand those same words, "teach me and I will learn."  So, it is humility and a respect.

Rick Burnett:  I also would think that focusing salvation on people could lead to some strange cults.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller:  Yes, I believe that's correct.  Instead, we have to focus on Jesus Christ.

Rick Burnett:  How does following Jesus help us follow a "Possibility Living" life path?

Dr. Douglas DiSiena: Well, as I mentioned recently, this is the last chapter of the book.  We started with this and we have to end with this - for us to be totally free we have to understand that our eternal life and salvation comes from Jesus.  If people want to go through a healing process, we know that ultimate healing comes from Jesus and the power of the Holy Spirit.  So, we really need to come to grips with accepting the free gift that Jesus has paid the price and that we can accept and receive.  Once we understand the work that Jesus did on the cross, we understand that we can be free from the emotional stresses, trials and tribulations that we go through; we understand that we have the power to heal through the Holy Spirit; we have direction and purpose in life.  This wholeness and wellness idea comes through that Above, Down, Inside, Out, spiritual realm of what is possible for our life.  We have to come to a realization of who Jesus is.

Dr. Robert A. Schuller: That is a beautiful testament of Possibility Living and our Christian faith and how they integrate together.  Possibility Living is living the whole person, body, mind and spirit and allowing it to permeate every fiber of our being.