| An
interview with Robert A. Schuller & Douglas DiSiena
Rick
Burnett:
Concluding our series on Detoxify Your Habits, let's move
on to Step 10: "Continue to take personal inventory and
when you are wrong, promptly admit it." Dr. DiSiena, will
you please comment on this step.
Dr.
Douglas DiSiena: We ask people to say, "I will continue
to take personal inventory of my life on a regular basis,
and promptly admit it when I do something wrong or lapse
back into old behaviors." This is really going from treating
the issue, now going into a wellness program. Now that
we have cleaned up the past, we work to keep the future
clean as best we can. So, when we come upon an issue, you
have to deal with it and not harbor it in your heart. As
we said in the book, "issues at the heart of the matter,
are always a matter of the heart." Once we get to the bottom
line basis as to what's going on with the heart, then we
can continue to have great relationships.
Dr. Robert A. Schuller: As I've said a while ago.
There are three parts to the 12 Steps. Part l is steps
1-3; Part 2 is steps 4-9; and Part 3 is steps 10-12. So,
now that we are at Step 10, we are in what has historically
been considered the "maintenance steps." Or, as Dr. DiSiena
and I refer to them "the wellness steps", so that you don't
get sick and fall back into the same trap. Dr. DiSiena
and I are very much interested in wellness care, rather
than sickness care. If you're into sickness care, you're
dealing with some real problems and challenges. On the
other hand, it is a lot easier to "maintain" rather than
"fix." It's like your car, if you change the oil and fluids
in your car it will keep running. If you don't change the
oil, you'll be looking at a complete engine overhaul - so
it's a good thing to change the oil! The same thing with
health - it's a good thing to take your wellness essentials
- your vitamins. The small amount you will spend on vitamins
cannot be compared to the cost of a bypass. So, that is
what these steps do - they are maintenance, so that we don't
acquire other addictions to pacify our brokeness into the
future. So, we continue to take personal inventory and
when we are wrong, we promptly admit it. As much as you'd
like to think you can avoid falling into the traps that
caused a lot of the pain in the first place, you cannot
do that - it is impossible to live a perfect life. That's
why as Christians, we live by grace and not by works. No
one has the ability to be perfect. If you put people on
pedestals and expect them to be perfect, you'll live a life
of disappointments. So, when you make a wrong, simply admit
it. The phrase I learned from my father a long time ago
is one that I carry with me and when I use it, it usually
is surprising to people. When I get into a discussion with
someone and realize that I'm on the wrong side of the debate;
I'll stop and say: "You're right and I'm wrong." Usually,
they can't believe it. We can do that in all areas of our
life. When we are wrong, remember this phrase: "You're
right, I'm wrong." It builds the other person and shows
a tremendous amount of humility. It also shows personal
inner strength. Most of all, it maintains your sanity and
your spiritual health.
Rick
Burnett: In taking a regular inventory of our life
- how often, maybe daily? Also, keeping a daily journal
and praying daily.
Dr.
Robert A. Schuller: Absolutely, yes - daily!
Rick
Burnett: Step 11: "Pray for God's will to be done in
your life."
Dr.
Douglas DiSiena: We ask people to: "Seek to know
more of God." I love this step. To me, these last steps,
10, 11 and 12 reflect one of my favorite verses in the Bible,
Luke 2:52, which says: "Jesus grew in stature and wisdom
and his relationship with God and others." So, it's a continual
process - it's a wellness process, it's not just maintenance,
it's progressive. I will seek to know more of God - that
is a progressive process. It is a growth in your spiritual
walk. The more we get to know God, the more we get to know
our shortcomings. Don't you agree, Robert?
Dr.
Robert A. Schuller: A lot of our shortcomings are
revealed where before knowing God, we don't even realize
that it is a shortcoming. We need to continue to seek God's
guidance in our lives. More importantly than that, is to
follow the guidance. I believe God gives us a lot of direction
and sometimes we don't necessarily notice it as direction.
Instead, we say, "God why are you allowing these things
to happen to me?" What we need to realize is that all things
work together for good to those who love God and are called
according to His purpose. That last section completely
explains to us that everything in life is a means for God
to be able to give us direction and to guide us in life.
So, when something bad happens in your life, or something
that appears bad, that is an opportunity to stop and pray
and say OK God, what are you telling me, where are you leading
me? What is the course correction that you're giving me?
In situations like that we need to ask God to open our eyes
and give us the faith to believe that something good is
about to happen. I wrote a book about this entitled: "What
Happens to Good People When Bad Things Happen." We need
to realize that bad things happen to everyone. The only
difference between champions and losers is that champions
realize that God is in the process of changing them. They
make lemonade out of lemons. They take the bad that God
gives them and they turn it into good. That first happens
mentally and emotionally with the belief that they can move
forward.
Rick
Burnett: This is a good spot for you to tell your "good
luck/bad luck" illustration.
Dr.
Robert A. Schuller: This is an illustration that I
tell wherever I go because I think it's great. There is
an old Chinese fable where a man had nothing except a horse
and a son. That is basically all he had in life. One day
his horse ran away. All the people heard that his horse
had run away and they came to him and offered their sympathy
and said: "oh, what poor luck you have, you lost your horse."
The old man shrugged his shoulders, and said, "how do you
know it's bad luck?" All the people went away just shrugging
their shoulders. Sometime later his horse came back, but
not only did his horse come back. The horse came back with
a dozen wild mares. So then he not only had one horse,
he had thirteen horses. All the people heard what happened
and they came over and said, "oh, what good luck you have."
The old man said, "how do you know it's good luck?" Well,
the people went home shrugging their shoulders again. While
his son is out taming the wild horses, he is thrown from
one and shatters his leg and becomes lame. All the people
in the neighborhood hear what happened to the son and they
come over and say, "oh, what bad luck you have." Guess
what the old man says - He responds, "how do you know it's
bad luck?" So, the people go home again shrugging their
shoulders. A while later, a warlord comes through town
and drafts every able-bodied man, and the son is left behind.
All the people come over again to him and say, "what good
luck you have." The old man says, "how do you know it's
good luck?" And, the story goes on, and on, and on, and
on, - the story is called LIFE. That is life. We don't
know what is good luck, we don't know what is bad luck,
we just know what IS. It is our faith that determines what
is good and what is not good. So, we rely on the promises
of God that all things work together for good to those who
love God and are called according to His purpose.
Rick
Burnett: Step 12: "Reach out and touch others in
a positive and inspiring way."
Dr.
Douglas DiSiena: This is a wonderful step where we
ask people to say: "I will seek to carry to others the glorious
message of the possibility of a spiritual awakening."
So, now you've received the gift, you've received the cleansing,
you maintain yourself, and then it becomes your responsibility
to share that with others. To me, this is doing the message
of Christ. It's sharing the possibility of hope. That
is the message of Christ, to spread hope.
Dr.
Robert A. Schuller: Yes that is the message - to
give people hope. So, when we talk about possibility living
what we are telling people is if you go to a doctor and
he says you have 30 days until you die of cancer; you have
to tell your doctor he is wrong, that you are not dying
of cancer. What you tell him is you are living with cancer.
If you are dying with cancer, there is no hope. On the
other hand, if you are living with cancer, there is always
hope. I cannot tell you how often I've met people who have
been told they only have 30 or 60 days to live, and they
turn around and completely recover. Norman Cousins, which
is a name almost everyone knows is one of those people.
Greg Anderson, who is a friend of mine and was an employee
of the Crystal Cathedral followed these 12 steps, and made
a will, etc., the only thing is he didn't die. He kept
on living - the cancer went away, and he is still alive
today. That was 15 or 20 years ago. He started a group
called Cancer Conquerors and they use that phrase: "I'm
living with cancer." Don't give yourself a death sentence
just because the doctor says you have cancer. It's not
a death sentence - it's a reality sentence - just remember
that you're going to live - that's why we call it Possibility
Living. In this last step, what we are doing is imparting
hope into people. There is always hope. There is no finality
until we come face to face with Jesus Christ. Even then
it is not over, it is just another new beginning. So, we
have to give hope to people. That is what these 12 steps
do. We are giving people hope.
Rick
Burnett: We want to wrap this up and want people
to understand that alcoholics anonymous have used this 12-step
system for many years. There are now many 12-step organizations
for all kinds of addictions that have helped millions of
people.
Dr.
Robert A. Schuller: My understanding of the 12 step
structure is there was a group of men who put this system
together in the 1930's and they started chapters which have
expanded tremendously over the years. You sometimes see
the name "Bill W." associated with the beginnings of the
12 steps; however, no one has taken credit for writing the
12 steps. I believe they were given by God, through people
who did not take the credit and gave it to society to use
to make this world a better place.
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